Jennifer (00:00:01) - Welcome to episode ten of season 17 of The Growing Empire Show. Today I'm back with my special guest, Damien Lupo. I hope you got to hear my conversation with Damien on episode nine. And in case you did not, you definitely want to go back and check it out. We had a great conversation, but I'm excited to continue today with Damien. His journey in real estate has been pretty remarkable, including finding himself very rich and very broke only a decade later. He talks about how he was resilient and was able to move with those challenges and come out on top, so I'm excited for my continued conversation. Make sure you stay tuned.

Speaker (00:00:45) - Welcome to Growing Empires, hosted by real estate entrepreneur and trusted investment advisor Jennifer DeJesus. Growing empires provides insight to building wealth through passive income, producing real estate investments for those who want to build and manage a more profitable real estate portfolio.

Jennifer (00:01:06) - Well, I want to talk about frame tech. I am so excited to hear about this. To start with, what is frame tech and what are you doing?

Damion (00:01:16) - We're solving the housing crisis.

Damion (00:01:17) - I mean, if you if you really boil it down, there's a housing crisis that has somewhere between 4 and 8 million missing units around the country. There's that we have. So it's interesting. 3 or 4 years ago, we had 4 or 5, six, 7 million missing units. And in the last few years we've had I don't know how many. Nobody knows for sure. Millions of people enter this country. And regardless of the politics, there's a lot of people that need to have a house or something to live in. So our the crisis is getting bigger frame tech is helping to solve that because we're disrupting the entire process of building the bones for houses and apartments. And what, what what this company does is so when you have a house, 92% of houses and apartments in America are they're built with wood, they're build with, with wood studs. And and that's the frame. I mean, that's that's what you have to have. It's a core part of all these, these structures.

Damion (00:02:04) - But nobody wants to swing a hammer. When I say nobody, it's really hard to get people to go swing a hammer. The it's it's getting more and more expensive for people to do it. And, and so there's this missing element of the entire construction process. And so we said, okay, we have these people that have been in this industry for 50 years, literally since before I was born in the 70s. And they had this idea to reimagine constructing all the framing, the trusses, the roof, the walls, the floors. And they came to my partner and I a few years ago and they said, we have this idea. And we said this, this seems too crazy. It's like, is this The Jetsons? Like it was just too far back. We're like, all right. Yeah. Nice idea. I know this. Something's wrong. Well, ultimately we we flew out to Arizona and met them and we said, wow, this idea is real. You guys are real, and we're going to do this.

Damion (00:02:50) - So we agreed to to fund and and be the capital and bring our community together. And so it was a $40 million commitment. And and they started we literally started funding a couple weeks later. That was two years ago this month. And so in two years we have a manufacturing plant that is now built here in Arizona that has its equipment in and will be producing in about three months, which is record light speed like nothing ever happens that fast. I've never heard of anything in America coming online. This is 111,000ft², and we're going to be building vertically, integrating all of the framing. So basically somebody comes to us with a house and here's here's what it really looks like. Somebody comes and they say I have this house a builder. Here's here's the house designs. We take those, we convert those into our CAD. We push them into our almost fully automated processing plant. And the we build all the structure, all the bones. And we do that. And then we take all of those pieces on our trucks and we move, we take them out to the site and we put this, this house together.

Damion (00:03:45) - So in two weeks, a builder goes from plans to a framed house, and then all the other people, the electricians and plumbers, come along. That process normally takes 2 to 3 months. So we're cutting down 80% of the time. So we're like five times faster to get this thing done. It's very predictable. Everything that's built inside of a plant is way better quality, because you've got tolerances that are super tight. So every everything's lined up and it's, you know, it's just a better product. I mean, there's there's no comparison. You cannot build a better product on site than you are in a plant because everything is measured, everything is photographed. So we build this whole thing. And here's one of the cool things too, because of the patented technology around finger jointing, which is where you take wood and you stick it, you basically stick end to end together and you glue it. We have one continuous piece of wood and and we have almost no waste. So an average house, 2000 square foot house has like 340 yard dumpsters full of trees.

Damion (00:04:36) - Just all these pieces they throw away when our process we have one third of one of those. So we have 90% less waste. And and that is I mean that's a game changer. Like the amount like acres and acres our one plant will save God knows how many acres of trees every year. And and the amount of you think about all the emissions, the carbon that is off that just gets blasted because of all these trucks that have to move all this dead, you know, these, these dumpsters around. So we're helping everything. Everybody, all the stakeholders, we create these plants and the plant we have for the first one is, is in is in Camp Verde and which is like a smaller community. So we're creating these these plants in more rural locations where a lot of people want to live, but they don't have the jobs. We're going to be the biggest private employer in Camp Verde. And, and, and we're using technology to make it more efficient so the industry doesn't change. Then the last innovation in construction was the nail gun 50 years ago.

Damion (00:05:32) - Like literally there's nothing that's changing. So this plant disrupts all of that. It does it in a very environmentally friendly way. It's it's creating incredible value. Tons of jobs, hundreds of jobs. And and we're solving this huge problem with housing, by the way, an apartment, which I think there's going to be a ton of apartments that are going to be needed for a lot of people. And in Arizona and Texas and the Tennessee area, like all these places, there's tons of growth. We build these apartments 100 year apartment that would take ten months to build the framing we do in two. So the compression of. Time that frame tech creates or does or implements is. So it's not incremental, it's exponential. And that's that's what people go, well, what should I invest in? What should I do? And I'm like, find something that solves a problem, but find something that you can like use. Peter Diamandis is thinking, the guy that wrote Abundance and Bold think about things that are ten x, like what can you do? What's a big problem? And then go at it.

Damion (00:06:26) - Not only are you going to feel better every day about solving this big problem, but you're actually going to do something that serves humanity in a big way. And that's what we need more people doing that. And that's what Frame Tech does. And it's and it's funny because in two years we I mentioned this at the beginning of our conversation. It's like this overnight success story, but it took 35, 40, 50 years to ramp up the people. The visionary Marvin Phelps started in trust building in the early 70s. And so people oftentimes think they they see these these overnight things, and they go, I want to be a billionaire in 15 minutes. And yeah, Peter Thiel is right. You can do that. And we've seen that in the tech space. The reality though is this this organization is worth a half a billion today. It was worth zero two years ago. It will be $1 billion company next year. And how did that happen? It happened because we took all of these principles, like I wrote about a lot of this stuff in Unicorn Nomics, a book I put out a few years ago, and it and the core premise of that was, if you can get the first 15% right in a business, you have an 85% likelihood of success.

Damion (00:07:28) - And so we took these principles and put them together with the right talent and the right timing and the right capital. And we matched it all together. And and then we have this very, very high likelihood of success, because those principles, first thinking, first principles were all put in place. And I think most people just sort of like shoot from the hip and they don't really worry about the principles or anything else. They just go, I'm going to try to hit something that creates money. And that's that's the opposite framework is is creating a huge solution to a massive problem with the right people, the right time and the right mission.

Jennifer (00:07:58) - So this these partially the partially framed homes, is that what they are. They're they're going to be shipped in like sections. Is that is that what we're talking about.

Damion (00:08:07) - So it's so the, the floors, the floor trusses, the walls, the and the roof trusses, all those basically all the bones. We bring them out in those pieces. So it's the floors, the walls, the trusses bring them out.

Damion (00:08:18) - And then our framing crews, five person framing crew puts them together there. So it's it's not manufactured or modular where you have a whole house. That's that's another solution. That's not what we're doing. We're doing a very, very specific thing. It's wood framing. It's a renewable resource. That's that's what we do. We do the whole it's vertically integrated, like we take the plant and turn that into a framed house. It's all the framing. And then all the, all the other trades come in after that. So a builder can take that out of their entire process. They can say, okay, we don't need to worry about framing. We don't need to go hire guys swinging hammers in Arizona to be 115, 120 degrees out here. We're no longer going to have to have somebody sitting outside for weeks swinging a hammer, building things. They're snapping these things together and attaching them. Most of the work is done inside of it contained environment with a roof which is really nice when it's raining or it's blazing hot.

Damion (00:09:08) - So that's, that's, that's the process.

Jennifer (00:09:11) - So who is your client base? Your client base is builders. Home builders.

Damion (00:09:15) - Yeah. All the builders that are building homes and apartments that there's it's funny, people are like, well, so you have orders and we have we have a line of people that are saying, how many when can I order these things? Because our system, our process is literally exponentially better, more efficient, cost effective, faster than everything that's out there. So they're all they're all saying, when can we order like we're we'll we'll be backlogged in full the moment we open. And that's just that's just a fact. Because these builders are having a really hard time nationwide. They're having a really hard time. There's there's no builder that's like, oh yeah, we have tons of extra labor and we have and it's super easy. And and like I've heard of framers that are making $100 an hour in Seattle and that was four years ago. So it's really hard when you have that kind of environment where you have such a missing supply of a certain trade and that's that's really endemic everywhere.

Jennifer (00:10:04) - Right. So how do you see this impacting real estate investments specifically?

Damion (00:10:09) - I think it gives more predictability to. So you have you have better quality products. You have less when you're investing. One of the problems is you invest in something and you have you have issues of construction quality. So I mean, you buy a brand new house. There's a lot of build, build to rent type of things. People are building houses and the investors buy them and then they rent them out and you're going to have less and less quality problems with defects. When you have something that's built at a higher quality, that's that's one major thing. You're going to have predictability and timing, which means that instead of going, I hope this House will be done in 6 or 8 months, we can carve off a couple of those months or like this time. And and so builders are going to be able to be there. It's going to cost them less to build. So and the reason being is when you can cut out months of time that that capital cost shrinks.

Damion (00:10:55) - You're not sitting there just waiting. You don't have piles of wood sitting there waiting for somebody to do something. So in terms of investing, it's going to make it. It's going to be more efficient. So your product is. It's going to be better when you get it. It's it's ultimately going to make it more predictable. And investing. The more predictable something can be, the better. If it's just I have no idea what's going to happen. That's a very dangerous model. So this this is a better model for for investors. If anybody that's local that they're, they're going to have something that's more predictable. If they if somebody says, I want to go build an apartment and I'm going to rent it out, and that's my investment, this is going to be an ideal situation to say, okay, we want to have frame tech do all the framing, because then you have honestly it's a lot less stress to so it's going to be more efficient. It's ultimately going to cost a lot less because of the time.

Damion (00:11:40) - So so there's everybody wins. Even the investors win in this I mean it's there's nobody that's that doesn't win except for legacy companies that are trying to do things a legacy way that that's probably the only one that doesn't do great here. They lose business to something that's doing a better job.

Jennifer (00:11:58) - Sure. So how long is the from planning stages. So I submit my plans right. How long is it from that to the actual product being manufactured.

Damion (00:12:08) - So you give us your plans and then there's a, there's a two week process for a house. I mean it's it literally your house is done inside that two week process. Your house is all framed up. And you can literally say, okay, on this day, two weeks from now, I can have my plumber come in and have the electrical starting to run. So that's I mean, it's that fast. It's it's it's very predictable. It's very quick. And that in construction predictability and speed are priceless.

Jennifer (00:12:36) - Yeah for sure. How do you expect that this is going to impact the cost of new construction.

Damion (00:12:43) - It actually could end up lowering it because when you have when you when you reduce the capital costs for builders that they can pass that through. So one of the reasons that builders get really excited here is because they can be more they can be more competitive. And if they're more competitive, it actually scares the other builders because the other builders are like, well, we're less competitive. So that's why everybody's getting excited. And they all sort of we've had a lot of interest in builders wanting to look at acquiring this or having us do all of their products, because they know that they'll be more competitive than every other builder that's out there, because framing ends up being usually the biggest part of a of a of a house or giant portion of the cost. So I that's that's what we see coming. We see we see the, the builders getting pretty, pretty anxious about us coming online. They're like, well, could you please finish so we can start using this? I think that the costs are going to end up being it's going to compress costs.

Damion (00:13:32) - And and honestly, even if the cost were the same, the quality is better. You're a great example. An inspector that comes out and has to look at a framed house. They're looking at everything. When they see frame tech stamped on the wood, they're going to say, oh, we know frame tech. It's the same every single time. And the inspectors are going to start saying, if it's frame tech, we're happy. If it's not, we're not happy. I mean that's that's the that's what makes everything faster and more efficient. So, nobody else is out there with that where where they have inspectors saying, oh, good, it's this company we like. It doesn't exist.

Jennifer (00:14:03) - Yeah. And when did you say the plants can be open? A couple of months.

Damion (00:14:06) - Yeah. In August we're anticipating the the first line, the trust line coming online. And then the other the walls and the floor trusses are following that up a couple months later. So everything will be in full production by the end of the year.

Damion (00:14:18) - But we will have stuff that's being produced by by the end of the summer. So it's it's right around the corner like it's it's amazing how fast a couple of years goes by when you're grinding in your building, and then you pop your head up, you're like a gopher. You pop up and you go, whoa, what's what's here? Like, there's a whole thing here, like two years, actually, last year there's a cool video. It might be online of of us putting concrete and pouring it in the middle of what it looked like a hurricane in central Arizona. And we had guys out there there blowing around and concrete's blowing everywhere. And I was just laughing. I was in Alabama and I'm like, Alabama normally has the hurricanes and the tornadoes, and we have one apparently in the middle of Arizona. So one year ago we were we were pouring the concrete. And today we have a completed plant that is almost three acres under under roof with robots in there. And this, this line that's been built, it's it's absolutely mind bending.

Damion (00:15:03) - It's just it's so cool to be part of the solution, to truly be building back America and creating production and manufacturing, which I think we desperately need. Anybody that's that looks around, knows that we need more of that in this country. And and to be part of that is is really fulfilling.

Jennifer (00:15:17) - That's awesome. So are you going to just say focus on the Arizona market initially? Are you going to be shipping across the country so.

Damion (00:15:24) - That the plants ship within about 200 miles? That's our radius. And it's it's kind of like mattresses the way they used to be. It used to be that there was a mattress plant everywhere in the country because the cost to ship, it's really expensive. And and if you take a truck and that truck has to spend 3 or 4 days moving one house, that that doesn't really work. So you you do these our two plants here in Arizona, the second one comes online in about two years. Those plants will cover 90 plus percent of the population in Arizona.

Damion (00:15:50) - And then we have site locations in Central Texas that'll cover the four MSAs Dallas, San Antonio, Austin and Houston. And then we have we have plants targeted in the Carolinas, Tennessee and Florida. So a lot of the growth, a lot of the pro-business places, you know, it's. Didn't say California or New York, not because they don't need it, but because we're just not interested in going to places that are anti-business, that are so hard to work with. So we're going to places that are very welcoming and that have a lot of growth. They're very specific. And and that's that's where we see these things rolling out. And ultimately it'll cover about between 80 and 100 million people in the current population base.

Jennifer (00:16:25) - Can I put a vote in for the next state that you tackle? Can it be can it be Pennsylvania?

Damion (00:16:31) - I mean, you know, it really has to do with the market like these. Do we have enough capacity? Do we have enough? I mean, like I said, if you have a community that's very pro-growth and you have enough building, we've had we've had different economic development councils that have reached out from different states, Montana and Idaho and, and Colorado.

Damion (00:16:47) - And they want them. But it's like you have to have enough people like we're building manufacturing and we don't want to own a market in Arizona. We're going to have less than 10% of the market. We don't want to be 50 or 60%. We want to be. We want to be the the go to. And you never want to get in a position where you're everything because it's it's just a very dangerous business model. So Pennsylvania has enough people. It's it probably comes down more, more than anything to do. We have a very pro-growth government. And is it going to be hard, like we had almost no red tape because we have a mayor and we have politicians and and we just have a lot of support. So the tailwinds make it a lot easier. Quite frankly. It's you don't want to go someplace where it's hard to do business if it's not fun. And and it's just it's a pain just to even try to do the thing that's going to be good for a community. So that's why we're passing.

Damion (00:17:34) - But it could be it could be that Pennsylvania is one of those places it's really going to be. Do we have people saying, we really want you here and we will make this easy, or do we have a fight and we're not going to get into any fights. You're.

Speaker (00:17:49) - The episode will continue in just a moment.

Jennifer (00:17:53) - As an investor, we know it's important to stay on top of market trends and real estate opportunities that add value to your portfolio. We also know that having a trusted source of reliable information to help you stay a step ahead of other investors is critical to your success. If you're interested in having these types of resources as well as access to me and my team, I invite you to join the Empire Investment Club, a free service that gives you an easier way to make sense of today's and tomorrow's real estate opportunities. As a member of the Empire Investment Club, you'll get access to relevant resources and investment focused experiences such as live interactive webinars, market trend presentations, and investor socials designed to equip you with what you need to succeed.

Jennifer (00:18:33) - So whether you're an active investor, passive investor, a combination of both, or just starting out, the club is where you'll get what you need to build a portfolio you love. To join, just head over to Jennifer DeJesus. Com sign up and we'll see you in the club where everyone's on a journey to becoming a better investor. Let's talk about some of your books that you've written and what the what the audience. What were these books you mentioned? A couple of them give me kind of a background on each one of them. And you know what? What you were trying to achieve or solve with, with writing the books.

Damion (00:19:06) - So every time I've written a book, I'm trying to get something out of me that I'm thinking about, the way I'm thinking about whatever or what I think I know about something. So I wrote a book on gold. I wrote a book on retirement accounts. The book which if if most people have some type of IRA or 401 K and they have no idea really what they can do or what they should do or how they even work.

Damion (00:19:26) - And so the book I wrote, the book, which you can get if you go to exp.com, you can get a copy of it. And, and it really teaches you all the things you can do, which is not just stocks. And like you can literally invest all of your retirement money in real estate. You can do it. You can invest it in bitcoin or gold or like there's all these things. So I wrote the book to be able to communicate these, these ideas to people and to clarify my thinking. It's often funny when I've written books, what I thought I knew until I started writing and I realized, man, my thinking is a jumbled mess. And and so it takes a lot of energy to sort it out. And once it's on paper and somebody else can say, yeah, I got a lot out of this, then I know that my thinking is fairly clear. So that's that's why I've written these books on these different topics, mostly to clarify, sometimes, like reinvented life was sort of cathartic.

Damion (00:20:09) - It was like, okay, I need to learn what just happened the last decade. I don't want to do that again. That hurt a lot. And as much as I'm I'm okay with pain, I don't want to do the same pain over and over again. It's like stubbing your toe into the same wall. Maybe turn left or right, like do something. And so reinvented life was was about understanding the process and and how I can be better. It was very there was two pieces of that book. There was an internal piece, and then there was an external piece, like the internal work and then the external reality of the world we live in. The last chapter in the book is, is called it's a chapter on stillness. And I think nowadays everything is so crazy and there's like a frenetic ness around everything. The more we can find space of stillness primarily going into into nature, because I don't think there's anything more honest or more true or more connected to God than nature. I don't think concrete is necessarily a still honest place.

Damion (00:20:59) - I think it's generally full of people that have agendas. I don't think a squirrel or a deer has an agenda. They're simply present, like it's like a dog. Like, why? Why do I keep hearing people tell me, get a dog if you want love, you want truth because dog have dogs, have presents. They don't have a past or a future. They literally have now. And and so the closer we can get to that, I think that that's that's one of the things that I learned deeply. I was so busy being anxious about the future or depressed about the past, which is where most people live. They forget that they're actually here today. And there's an interesting thing. One of the things I've learned is that I don't have problems. I have projections, and if you ask yourself, do I have a problem right now in this moment, in this conversation, do we have do I have a problem? I don't have any problems. I have somebody something or I have something that I'm worrying about in the future.

Damion (00:21:43) - But this moment I don't have a problem. So that that one idea has been really helpful for me to go into whatever I'm going to work on and build and stop thinking and obsessing around the problems. Writing a book forces me to get very present and get stuff out of my brain so that I'm not obsessing about it. I can put it down so I my my my good, good time. Friday night is like sitting, having a glass of wine and writing a book. It's very strange, but like like the the amount of Friday nights or most nights that I'm sitting somewhere either eating or, or having a glass of wine or something, like literally at a bar. I'm generally sitting there studying and and writing and reading, and it's probably crazy for most people, because I know that, because I hear more often than not, it's Friday night. Why aren't you going out there and doing something? And I laugh and I'm like, I'm creating. I'm building an empire. I'm. I'm here on purpose.

Damion (00:22:31) - I'm not just out there numbing myself. And that's where most people live. They're they're Fridays, Saturdays, Sundays, Mondays, Tuesdays. Like they it's like numbing because they don't have they're not present enough in something that matters. So the books have helped me process all of that. And and like unicorn was, was taking all of the previous businesses and understanding what's, what's really a fundamental truth that I can use to guide all the future businesses and help other people do the same thing. Unicorn Nomics is that philosophy get that first 15%, and if you get that right, what's funny is every once in a while, somebody that's working with me will say, why are we doing it this way? You wrote about it this way in the book, but we're doing it a different way. And I'm like, you're right. And they call me out on my own stuff, which is really funny. I'm like, yeah, I literally am violating my stuff because I get this. There's a disconnect. So if you can keep that stuff in front of you, it's, you know, it's like having mantras and things.

Damion (00:23:20) - You keep the stuff in front of you and then you're present to the rules or the or the ideas or the process. And and so that's why I write the books. That's, that's they've been on a range of topics all really centered on people's own freedom. Because that's, that's my deepest value is is freedom. It's our personal freedom. I believe in personal sovereignty and that we all own ourselves. And and the more we can disconnect from what I believe is modern day slavery, which is money, I think that that enslaves the entire population. And and so the idea is, how do I find ways to. To help people disconnect and break those shackles. So every one of my books has something about that in there. The very first book was called Maverick Mistakes in Real Estate Investing. The Lessons I learned at the School of Hard Knocks and the University of getting the crap kicked out of me. That book was how I lost my first million in real estate, and I find it fascinating that there are people.

Damion (00:24:07) - I had a comment on Amazon. I don't read these anymore, but in the beginning I was all excited about my book and somebody wrote this book is a bunch of stuff that I already knew, and this is stupid and a waste of time and money. And I'm laughing. I was like, wow, I didn't realize everybody had made all these mistakes. That person was probably broke, probably just a naysayer critic. And I was like, all right, that's that's totally okay, because there's somebody out there that read the book and said, oh, I was about to do that. And that just saved me $60,000. So this is this is me getting the stuff out of my brain. I don't want to die with all this stuff in me. So the books are a way of getting me getting the stuff out of me before I die.

Jennifer (00:24:39) - That's awesome. So how do my listeners connect with you, follow you, or learn more about all the things that you're doing and creating?

Damion (00:24:47) - I think the best place to go is, is really the essence, the the, the highest expression of of what I'm all about is really can be seen.

Damion (00:24:54) - You can get the essence at frame tech. So frame tech, tech comm, check it out, see what that is. And it's it's a learning opportunity. Some people are going to say I want to invest in this thing, which there's an opportunity for that. It's really about seeing what I think. It can be an inspiration for people to build whatever they want to build. And and so visiting there and you can connect with me, you can find me on LinkedIn and just connect with me. I that's if you want to see what 46 years condensed into the last two looks like. And and for me, a person that's focused on building more than tearing people apart or divisiveness or being critical, I'm solving a problem. So this is what that looks like and what it looks like to have a world class team that is the most honest, honorable, talented group of humans that I've ever worked with. Like, you see all that in one place. And so I think it's a really great inspiration and a model for, for you, no matter what you're doing, whether it's real estate or a business or, or your own life, I think there's just there's some things that you can garner from that, some, some incredible gems.

Damion (00:25:55) - So I would encourage everybody to go visit that. And if you're in Arizona or you want a really cool trip, come visit the plant, see what it looks like and you can actually touch it. I mean, I think that that's also very cool. And it's an open invitation.

Jennifer (00:26:07) - That's awesome. Well, Damian, it's been such a pleasure talking to you today. You are an incredible wealth of knowledge, but your persistence and drive to help people is just really refreshing. So thank you so much for all of your time today and all of your insights and all of the really cool things that you're developing as well.

Damion (00:26:28) - I appreciate your time. I appreciate you having me here and hope everybody got a little little gem or a nugget they can run with and go, oh, that's really cool. One thing that I always like to to share is no matter what, wherever you are taking some a thing and then doing something with it, that's that's how this whole journey happened for me. It was taking something, not just thinking about it, but actually doing something.

Damion (00:26:47) - So if we go back the last hour and you grab something, take, take some action and watch your, your life spiral in a healthy direction, not spiral into the ground, but literally change because you're taking action. That's the missing element for most people's life. They just they they're missing the action part. They might even be learning, but they're not doing. And the more you do, the more you grow, the more you learn. Your temperature changes and and everything gets bigger and better and brighter. So the future truly is better than the past.

Jennifer (00:27:13) - Thank you for listening to part two with my special guest, Damion Lupo. I hope you enjoyed both these episodes and until next time, take care!

Speaker (00:27:24) - For more information about how Jennifer can help you plan, develop and manage a strong real estate investment portfolio, visit Growing empires.com.

You can learn more about our special guest here.