Jen: (00:00:01) - Welcome to episode seven of season 16 of The Growing Empire Show. Today I am here with my special guest, Shannon Robinette, and we're going to talk about ground up construction and Syndications. So stay tuned.

Speaker: (00:00:16) - Welcome to Growing Empires, hosted by real estate entrepreneur and trusted investment advisor Jennifer DeJesus. Growing empires provides insight to building wealth through passive income, producing real estate investments for those who want to build and manage a more profitable real estate portfolio.

Jen: (00:00:36) - All right. Welcome, Shannon, to the Growing Empire show. I'm so glad that you're here.

Shannon: (00:00:40) - Thank you so much for having me.

Jen: (00:00:42) - Awesome. Let's kick off this episode with you, sharing a little bit about your background and the work that you're doing now.

Shannon: (00:00:47) - Well, you know, Jen, I grew up in a real estate family, and it wasn't until much later in life that I realized the value of my upbringing. But over the last 27 years in business, I've done about $450 million worth of real estate, ground up development, everything from police stations, fire stations, um medical facilities, schools, gymnasiums, you know, run the whole gamut.

Shannon: (00:01:11) - And I watched, uh, in 2001 when my parents were 50, they retired on cash flow. And I saw that that was the way to get out of even what I had as a business owner was a job. Every time I completed a building, every time I finished a project, I stopped getting paid. So I had to go find another customer to work with. I had to find another building to build. And so in 2001, I built my first industrial complex, and to this day there were two of the original tenants still in that building. Oh wow. And I saw how that created something beyond that. And I began to work with partners, basically single check writers. We would form a partnership, we do a project based on that project. We would split profits. Um, and as that continued to grow, I found myself in 2018 starting a project where I was working with a family office, and they wrote a check for $19 million, which was our, uh, investment amount for a 180 unit ground up apartment complex.

Shannon: (00:02:12) - And as we drew that to completion, um, I realized that the projects I had in front of me, we're going to need more capital than than that. And it was it was going to be harder to find people that would write checks of that size. So in, uh, 2019, I began to syndicate capital and in, uh, what, the last four years, uh, three and a half years now, uh, we've raised about $65 million, and we have projects going from Washington to Florida and currently have about $125 million worth of real estate under management.

Jen: (00:02:46) - Wow. That's amazing. So today we're going to talk about real estate development specifically and your syndication experience. And I've asked Shannon to join me to share his wealth of knowledge that he's gained throughout the years on these subjects. So we'll jump right into the question. So how did you actually get started in real estate? It sounds like you came from another industry, maybe a construction business, that I have that right.

Shannon: (00:03:08) - Well, I watched my parents, you know, my dad was a builder and developer.

Shannon: (00:03:11) - My mom was a third generation real estate broker. Okay. And so I, I grew up at poor dad's table. You know, we've all read the purple book. Uh, rich dad, poor dad and I grew up at their table at dinnertime. They were always talking about, you know, the Johnsons want to sell their home, and they want to take some of the equity and and start a business. And, you know, do we have warehouse space? And so I saw deal making happen. And in fact, I just, uh, I just got a paper from my dad of one of the deals he worked out on a legal tablet. Um, and, and so I just saw how that created a lifestyle for them, and, and like I said, my parents retired in oh one, and they're still living the exact same lifestyle that they did then, because rents have increased. Right?

Jen: (00:03:56) - Sure.

Shannon: (00:03:57) - And so as I began to build projects, I just saw that that was fine, but it didn't allow me to to create something that paid me passively.

Shannon: (00:04:09) - And so I began to slowly build projects and put them aside and create a passive income for myself that over the years has grown. And I saw how I could really utilize that for myself and for others with passive investors and LPs. So I just began to do that. We still build a lot of our own projects. Um, but now our main focus is working for ourselves. We don't we don't do for hire construction anymore.

Jen: (00:04:38) - Okay, wonderful. So what what segments of the real estate market are you focusing on specifically today? I know you said you've done a lot of things over the years, but what are you focusing on today like this current marketplace? Is it strictly industrial? Is it apartment complexes? I know you said you're working on a ground up project now. Yeah.

Shannon: (00:04:55) - So we've got, uh, three ground up projects going right now. Uh, one is 191 unit apartment complex. Another one is a 60 unit apartment complex. And then we've got an industrial complex in Florida that will have two 40,000 square foot buildings in it.

Shannon: (00:05:10) - One is completely leased. Um, and the other one, we're working on an Loi on.

Jen: (00:05:16) - Okay. All right. So when you're doing these particular deals, you know, are you buying a lot of raw land for this ground up or are you tearing down stuff that's already existing?

Shannon: (00:05:29) - You know, actually we do have four projects going because we are. We did buy a building in an opportunity zone.

Jen: (00:05:36) - Okay.

Shannon: (00:05:37) - Um, that we will. It is a warehouse, um, project. It's fully tenanted. The rents are about 50% of market. It's right next to a local mall. Uh, right next to bus lines. And so we recently got that approved for 200, 200 units of apartments. Wow. And so if you think about, you know, passive investors love depreciation, right. Yeah. Well opportunity zones at another wrinkle to it where you can defer taxes. But if you think about this we paid $5.5 million for the buildings. Uh, they're on the site. Uh, year one, we took about $2 million in depreciation in year two.

Shannon: (00:06:18) - Uh, we will tear down the buildings, completing another $2 million worth of depreciation. So we paid 5.5 million. We will depreciate 4 million on a $3 million investment. So we will actually over depreciate what we actually put into it for cash. Then we'll build a 200 unit apartment complex that will tenet rise, stabilize, will hold for the next ten years and receive the cash flow on that. And then because it is an opportunity zone, we will exit that tax free.

Jen: (00:06:47) - Wow. That's amazing. That's awesome. So tell talk to me about the partnership. So you are what is your role in all of this. You are always the one raising capital. Are you the one finding the projects a little bit of both. And what are your other partners do?

Shannon: (00:07:04) - Yeah. So with my background I always found the projects, right. I would I would get a call from a realtor or I would find something, I would see what it could become. Um, and then I always ran into the wall of never enough capital, not enough money.

Shannon: (00:07:19) - Yeah. And so I've really become a capital raiser by default. And so we have personally raised, uh, about $63 million in capital because I keep finding more deals to do. And, you know, you can't let a deal get undone, right?

Jen: (00:07:40) - Certainly not. Especially if you're especially if they're in opportunity zones. You definitely cannot.

Shannon: (00:07:45) - Correct, correct.

Jen: (00:07:47) - So tell me why you focus on multifamily and industrial. Why are those the two main focus segments today?

Shannon: (00:07:55) - Well, for for the last 5 to 8 years, uh, you know, multifamily has been a little bit of a darling child. Yeah. Of of the real estate world. And the returns have been phenomenal. Sure. Um, I grew up, uh, a lot of what I did was industrial, uh, institutional product. And so for me, um, that creates another segment of what we can use for expertise. And as we see right now, there's a lot of on shoring or reshoring of businesses that are coming back from overseas because of logistics issues, quality control issues, Covid issues, all of those kinds of things.

Shannon: (00:08:35) - And the thing that I love about the industrial world, especially in inflationary environments like this, is they're triple net leases. And what that means, that triple net lease means that the tenant has a rent that they pay every single month, and then they pay the triple net, which is the property taxes, the insurance, the maintenance, the management, all the costs associated. Even painting buildings and redoing parking lots are all cost to the tenant. And so as we see in this climate where property taxes continue to escalate and, um, insurance is going through the roof right now, this is a very, very safe, uh, investment, because what we're seeing in multifamily is those costs are being borne by the owners because prices have kind of topped out, rents have kind of leveled off. And so we're seeing that owners are getting less and less each month because of the additional expenses. And in industrial you're building those through to the tenant. So as those costs go up, the tenant pays those. And your rent is always your rent and your profit margins stay fixed okay.

Jen: (00:09:43) - So you you talk about I don't know if I saw it on your website or where I heard this, but you talk about industrial buildings being the hidden ATM. Yeah. So is that strictly because of the of the, uh, triple net leases or is it are there other factors that you find make them just super lucrative?

Shannon: (00:10:01) - There's there's several factors. You know, in in multifamily you deal with a lot of, um, you know, tenants not paying the rent. Right. But when you when you compare the tenant in an industrial product to the tenant in a multifamily, attended in an industrial product has a balance sheet, uh, they sign a long term lease, usually 5 to 10 years. Um, they have a business, they have, uh, personal guarantees. And when you have those kinds of things. As you know, we all know the business that's been in the same spot for 60 years, right? Right. We would assume that they own the building, but in a lot of cases they don't because it's not in their best interest.

Shannon: (00:10:43) - Their business is what generates the money, not the building. And so when you're establishing a business, location is key. If you want to move, you've got to take your business offline. You've got to stop creating whatever product it is you're making or services that you're doing. Your employees are now going to get paid to move you. So there's a lot of expense involved, which really makes tenants very, very sticky. In the multifamily world. We all know that for 40 bucks they'll pack up on a weekend, buy their buddies a couple of pizzas, throw everything in the back of a pickup and go down the street. Yeah.

Jen: (00:11:15) - For sure.

Shannon: (00:11:16) - So it's very predictable cash flow. Um, and then when you're being able to pass on the expenses, it also creates something that, you know, your cash on cash is very, very stable. Sure.

Jen: (00:11:29) - So talk to me about the ground up development versus, you know, just buying a value add building. Right. Especially if we're talking multifamily for example.

Jen: (00:11:38) - So why why the ground up construction. What are you seeing in that and that realm that just makes that a better investment than taking something and repurposing it or, you know, remodeling it?

Shannon: (00:11:50) - Well, the reality is, you know, you look at the amenities that people that live in apartments want right now, you know, and they don't have those in in product that was built in the 70s, the 80s and the 90s. Nine foot ceilings are standard now in new construction. Um, you know, it's not just about having a pool in a, in a small clubhouse. It's about having zoom rooms, and it's about having dog washes and, and and all of the things that tenants want now, um, including internet connectivity. And so when you're buying a value add, you're buying somebody else's value add. They bought that ten years ago. They remodeled it. They added, uh, some amenities. They they took it from a B-minus to a B+. Uh, and they created value there that you're now buying it from them at the top of the value for what it is.

Shannon: (00:12:46) - Then you're going to repeat that cycle, but you're still working with a 1980s product. When you take and you build ground up, you know, we've all seen where towns have moved in, cities have moved, and this is now the newer part of town. There's a new freeway off ramp. There's new things. There's there's new reasons to be over here. You're combining that with your taking sticks and stones. Um, and you're creating the original value add. Uh, I've got a product right now. It's 190 units. We will be all in on it, uh, with financing at about $62 million. With tenants, that product becomes worth about $76 million. And so there's a lot of value to add by taking it from actual costs to tenants and creating that cash stream that people are willing to buy, because there's a lot of people out there that don't want to take the risk. A lot of investors that look at it and go, you know what $76 million is, is what I, what I have to pay for that.

Shannon: (00:13:46) - But I don't have the capacity or the ability to locate the land, uh, draw the plans, uh, you know, contract the subcontractors, do all of those things, which is where we're able to harness those returns for our for our investors.

Jen: (00:14:01) - Okay.

Jen: (00:14:02) - So tell me how you feel. The, you know, the rental rates. So, you know, you're building a class, right? Especially if you're giving them all these amenities. You're building a class, which means that you're then charging a class. Prices for these rental, these rental units, are you doing these in metropolitan areas where the rents are just much higher than, than, you know, smaller towns or, you know, do you worry about things like, you know, economy shifts and things like that where people have to live a little bit more, you know, they have higher constraints on their their income?

Shannon: (00:14:37) - Yeah. You know, and that's a really good point, because the very first thing that we do before we even look at look for property is we evaluate markets.

Shannon: (00:14:46) - And there's about nine markets that we've zeroed in on across the United States currently. And everybody looks at markets and say wow, this market's growing right. People are moving to this area. And that's very important because scarcity drives price. But the second most important thing is are the wages growing. Because the reality is if people's wages aren't growing they can't pay more for the apartments. If you look at statistics, uh, nationwide C-Class apartments, uh, they're paying up to 42% nationwide for their rent, 42% of their income. Yeah. If you're looking at a class, uh, that's in the in the high 20s. And so there's room to grow on that. And so if you look at an area we've got. Out industrial product in Houston. But if you look at Houston, the wage growth there isn't sustainable for a lot of new apartments to come on. So until wage starts to grow, I really like Raleigh, North Carolina, or I like Nashville, Tennessee, and those are larger markets, but we also do stuff in tertiary markets, um, like Tulsa.

Shannon: (00:15:56) - Uh, we're looking at a project in Tulsa. We've got projects going in Boise, Idaho, but those are markets that are growing for all the right reasons. And the wage growth there, um, is keeping up with the cost of new construction. And that's a very important indicator, is are you able to keep up with the increased cost of new product that then allows you to get the rents that are necessary rather than, uh, the Field of Dreams model, where if you build it, they will come and a lot of times they just can't afford it. Sure.

Jen: (00:16:26) - So when you're looking at these specifically apartments, let's just say to do these ground up construction for apartments, are you ever concerned about how many other developers are in that market doing the same thing?

Shannon: (00:16:40) - Always. Uh, and so you have to, you know, if you're going to do a ground up development, you know, you're going to look at several factors and we're going to assume that you love the market. Everything about the market checks out.

Shannon: (00:16:51) - Uh, you're going to look at your 5 to 10 mile radius. You're going to see what else is going on a quick trip through, um, meeting minute notes of city councils and design review councils is going to show you what's in the pipeline. And then once you've got that, the next thing that you check in on is your property management team. And you get them to tell you because they hopefully won't lie to you about what rents are in the area and what they see happening. Because at the end of the day, if you build a $400,000 cost apartment and your rents are $2,000 a month, you're going to have a very serious problem. And so based on that, then we design the product to fit the revenue stream that's that's available in that submarket. And that is a little bit of a different process, because a lot of people will design the apartments and then go out to contractors to get pricing. We bring the contractors in and we do a design build because we want to know, look, if I know my rents are $2,000, I know what my profit margins need to be for myself and my investors.

Shannon: (00:17:58) - But then after that, um, I can break it down. And I know that my plumber needs to be about 8.5% of my total cost. And so I set the budgets for all my subcontractors. And then based on that, we get them involved in the plans, and they're part of that process. So that at the end of the day, we've got a product that we can deliver to market. That's not a surprise on pricing, and it actually will still cash flow from day one on completion, because we know that pricing in the market right now will will give us this much for rent. And our return model based on cost. Return on cost is always, uh, something we consider from from the inception of the plans and the drawings.

Speaker: (00:18:44) - The episode will continue in just a moment.

Jen: (00:18:47) - As an investor, we know it's important to stay on top of market trends and real estate opportunities that add value to your portfolio. We also know that having a trusted source of reliable information to help you stay a step ahead of other investors is critical to your success.

Jen: (00:19:01) - If you're interested in having these types of resources as well as access to me and my team, I invite you to join the Empire Investment Club, a free service that gives you an easier way to make sense of today's and tomorrow's real estate opportunities. As a member of the Empire Investment Club, you'll get access to relevant resources and investment focused experiences such as live interactive webinars, market trend presentations, and investor socials designed to equip you with what you need to succeed. So whether you're an active investor, passive investor, a combination of both, or just starting out the club is where you'll get what you need to build a portfolio you love to join. Just head over to Jennifer dejesus.com. Sign up and we'll see you in the club where everyone is on a journey to becoming a better investor. So talk to me about how you scale this in other markets other than the market that you're currently located in. Like, you know, how did you get to Tennessee or Raleigh and how do you build those same teams? Because obviously the people that are working with you in Idaho, right, are not the people working with you in North Carolina.

Jen: (00:20:02) - So how are you building these consistent teams that allow you to do this level of ground up construction without physically being present in that marketplace?

Shannon: (00:20:13) - Well, a lot of it comes back to my background. So we've got a project going in Florida right now. And when the way that that project came to me was through, um, a gentleman, I was, I was purchasing a metal building from he had tenants that wanted in that particular market. They'd found a piece of ground, but they realized very quickly that they weren't going to be able to sustain their operation if they took all the cash out of it, that was going to be required by the bank. And so he came to me and said, hey, I got a building, a metal building I'm trying to sell into this market. What if you take it and, you know, do the development on it? So it comes through connections. It comes through, um, you know, different avenues. And it's it's always kind of funny how you wind up there, but building those connections over the last 20 years has really helped.

Shannon: (00:21:05) - And so then I wind up with with a player in that market, and I wind up with a in that particular case, I wound up with a, with an anchor tenant of 40,000ft². And so then I began to look around for a contractor, and I interviewed several, and I found one that thought, like I did, that ran his business similar to me. So it was kind of it was easy for me to understand how he was getting to the place he was getting, how he was getting the numbers he was getting. And so with that, I was able to go in and I negotiated the contract with him, that there were two sides to that. And a lot of people don't realize that construction is also a relationship business. I mean, sure, my the guy that lays my block used to his father used to lay block for my father. Right. And so I have a certain amount of pull with him. I have rapport, I have relationship with him so I can get some preference on my jobs.

Shannon: (00:21:59) - And so this this contractor had the same thing, uh, in his marketplace. And so I was able to see that. And then I also brought him in on a, on a cost sharing or profit, uh, actually a cost savings share plan so that for every dollar he saved me on the project, he got a percentage of that. So now, instead of being motivated to for change orders, he's motivated to save me money. And so he's looking at ways to cut costs, increase timelines, those kinds of things. Because at the end of the day, he can make more money doing that than he can finding ways to find, uh, finding ways to make the project more expensive.

Jen: (00:22:39) - Well, that's awesome. What? That is really creative. Um, it's probably the first time I think I've ever heard that. So tell me about it. Let's talk a little bit more about this industrial side. You know, obviously this is your background. This is what you know the most. But again, kind of same question here is how are you deciding that you want to do industrial in a in a certain area.

Jen: (00:23:01) - We know we talked about the multifamily and we talked about you know, you know wages have to be going up. We talked about, uh, population has to be growing. So for industrial, what are some of the metrics that you're looking for in that arena to make sure that that's a successful investment?

Shannon: (00:23:17) - Well, we start with vacancy and price, right. Uh, so again, back to the network, though. Um, I, I just did a deal in Houston, Texas, uh, which was a connection through another realtor that I use out of Phoenix. And, um, he was talking with a fellow broker in the Texas market. They were talking about lack of supply. They were talking about the issues that they're having, how their prices are coming up, how the Port of Houston is reopened, and there's a lot of, um, you know, product and people moving back to that area to produce products, goods and services. And so that, to me was a key indicator.

Shannon: (00:23:55) - And when I looked at the submarket that I eventually wound up doing this project in, there was a there was about a 4.5% vacancy rate, which is low and healthy. I also saw the cap rates that buildings were trading at in the area. Uh, and they seem to be a bit lower than some of the other markets I looked at. And so I knew that my, my differential between costs and value, uh, we're going to be higher because of a lower cap rate. I saw that vacancy was going to help me fill a bit quicker, uh, because of that. And then I began to look at product, and we actually found a building that someone had built in 2020, um, that they had tenants at one of the worst times to be tenants in the last two decades. And they were under market, but they were brand new. They had 4% debt that was assumed. Uh, and so we actually wound up taking down a project that had just been completed. And over the the next year, we will raise the tenants rents.

Shannon: (00:24:54) - We've already done that 12%. The first couple that have come for renewal. And we're now, uh, slated to have all the rents raised in the next 12 months, creating a great cash on cash for our investors and being in a new product in a newer area of town without having to do all the heavy lift of the development. Uh, we're looking at a couple development projects there now, uh, that we've got a foothold. And so it's kind of just through the relationships that take you there. But again, Houston is a market. Texas is a market that I've identified that I want to be in. But Houston doesn't really work for me for multifamily. And so now I have another tool in my in my tool chest here that I can use to still create great returns for my investors.

Jen: (00:25:41) - Okay.

Jen: (00:25:41) - So what advice would you give to somebody looking to to potentially get into raising capital?

Shannon: (00:25:49) - Um, you know, one of the first things, one of the, one of the hardest parts about what I did for raising capital was translating my experience because I didn't have a lot of experience raising capital.

Shannon: (00:26:02) - I ran into some of the same issues that a lot of people that are trying to get into, that run into, and where you may not have the resume that says, I've raised a ton of capital, I've done a ton of deals. You can align yourself with people that have. So if you're able to find someone that has a ten, 15, 20 year track record in real estate as far as doing deals, you can become well guilty by association and say, hey, I'm working with Jim over here. And he has, you know, had five successful exits. Uh, he's got 15 projects, uh, currently under management. He's done all these great things and I'm working with him. So it really it really pays to be, uh, important to important people. And I don't know, too many people in any market that have all of everything that they need. They have enough projects to take down, uh, they have enough capital to satisfy all of that or always pushing that limit.

Shannon: (00:27:06) - And so if you can find someone that's got a great track record, that's that's able to help you, uh, and you're able to bring value to them by bringing capital, then after a deal or two, it's going to be very, very easy for you to say that you've been part of a successful team that has done A, B, and C that's created results of X, Y, and Z for your investors. And until you have that, you can rely on their resume, basically the resume to get that credibility. But you're going to want to make sure that you vet them properly and really look at their experience and their time in the market and the things that they've really done, because you will again be guilty by association. And if they have deals that haven't worked out too well or they're newer to the market, it's going to be more difficult for that to happen.

Jen: (00:27:57) - Okay.

Jen: (00:27:58) - Great advice.

Jen: (00:27:59) - So same question, but let's talk about ground up construction specifically. So let's say, you know, you have an investor that wants to or you're an investor that wants to enter into ground up construction for multifamily.

Jen: (00:28:14) - That's what you think is the right thing to do. Maybe you own a ton of value add and you're just looking for the next project. How would you suggest somebody gets involved in ground up construction?

Shannon: (00:28:24) - Well, that's a little bit more difficult. But you know, there are there are ways to do that. When you when you look at if you're already in a market, you know, getting with your brokers and getting with your property management teams in the area, and maybe not just the one you're working with, but getting with other property management teams where you can see where the need is. And, you know, then you can find property that's available in that area. You can talk to your, um, property management team as far as, hey, what's the segment of the market that's underserved? Is it is it millennials that they want their elevated buildings and they want there really connective spaces and they want, you know, different types of amenities? Or is it the the aging population that's looking for more of a communal living experience.

Shannon: (00:29:16) - But they still want the privacy without having the neighbors above them, beside them, all of those kinds of things. And so you can kind of go that route. And then your next piece of that is going to be to find your GC team or your general contractor team that's going to be able to deliver that product on time and on budget. And sometimes that works out well, because if you've procured the ground and you've got the entitled property, you can find, uh, contractors that are willing to participate in creative ways, maybe become financial partners in the project, maybe become, um, you know, have a vested interest, like, I've been able to create, uh, with my guys that I work with out of state. So that at the end of the day, you've got something where you're not completely reliant just on your ability. Um, and again, if you've got value add product, there are always especially in the market we find ourselves in right now where there's a lot of projects that are ready to go vertical that have been put on hold because financing may have become a little bit more difficult.

Shannon: (00:30:19) - Um, maybe there's additional capital that's needed. And so finding people that you can partner with in a line that you can make sure that you're working with experience, um, so that you can grow your knowledge kind of kind of on the job learning. Um, but make sure that at the end of the day, you've got people there that are capable of delivering what you're looking for.

Jen: (00:30:41) - Okay.

Jen: (00:30:42) - What would you say you're paying attention to with economic trends, both now and in the future that you think are going to impact your investment strategies? What do you think's going to be happening over the next, say, six months to a year? And what are you projecting for the potential future?

Shannon: (00:31:00) - Well, one of the first things we pay attention to is politics. And I'm not necessarily talking about Democrat versus Republican, but I'm talking about the lessons that Covid taught us as far as landlords rights, um, what your ability is to have control of the property you have, um, and make sure that you're going into a place, um, where your rights as an owner are protected.

Shannon: (00:31:24) - We saw a lot of people get strung along by, you know, the Covid moratoriums that you couldn't do anything. And it really, really put them in a bad position so that if you've taken that part out of it and you've really analyzed that and said, hey, you know what? Florida's a great place to build because, you know, property owners rights are protected. And we didn't have a lot of the long moratoriums. You're going to be better off. But also looking at where is business moving? We've seen massive exodus from from areas that have the wrong kind of politics, um, where people are leaving the coastal areas and they're moving inland, or they're moving to states that that give them more opportunities for growth, businesses and people alike. And so going into areas like that where you can just make some really smart choices about where you invest your money and how likely you are to have governmental interference in your collection of those rents.

Jen: (00:32:19) - Okay. Good points.

Jen: (00:32:21) - So is there anything, Shannon, that I didn't ask you that I should have?

Shannon: (00:32:25) - Um, you know, I got a new crystal ball yesterday, but I dropped it and got all cloudy.

Shannon: (00:32:33) - But, you know, the thing that the thing that I think most people, uh, that have gotten involved in real estate in the last, say, half a dozen years may need to to remind themselves of is that real estate is not like day trading. We've been doing a lot of that lately where, you know, and even we had some very quick exits with some very good numbers. But real estate is something that you need. A plan A, B, even a, d, e, f and a G would be advised. But but know this that capital cures a lot of problems, so having access to to more capital than you need is always good. And then also time. Time will fix a lot of the problems as long as you have the capital to sustain. If you look at 2008, um, there are not a lot of similarities between that market and this one other than their fluctuating prices. But capital kept people in the game, and being able to deploy capital when others aren't really willing to rush in, uh, gives you better pick, better variety.

Shannon: (00:33:40) - We're seeing a lot more opportunities to deploy capital now at better returns than we saw three years ago, but we see a lot less people doing it because the capital requirement is higher now. I mean, we've always been trying to do our deals at 60 to 65% LTV, where a lot of people were taking advantage of the 80 to 85% opportunities, but now they find themselves in cash flow problems, where more capital will help you with that. And then looking at a longer term horizon, instead of thinking you're going to buy something and flip it in 18 to 24 months, look at what that property will do for you in 5 to 7 years through a slower growth process, but more of an ability to come up with A2X on your on your investors returns and things like that.

Jen: (00:34:28) - Okay. Wonderful.

Jen: (00:34:29) - Well, how do my listeners get Ahold of you if they're interested in potentially, um, maybe, you know, providing capital or just learning more about what you do and how to get working with you.

Shannon: (00:34:42) - Well, the easiest way to do that is just ShannonRobinette.com. Um, all of my social media is on there. Uh, we've got jobsite cameras where you can view what's currently under construction. It kind of gives you a a bird's eye view of what's happening. And also, you can actually grab a spot on my calendar. I'd love to talk with you, kind of figure out what your investment goals are and see if working with us may be a fit, or maybe just kind of see what what I can do to give you maybe a quick tip or something that might help you on your road to investing better.

Jen: (00:35:15) - Oh that's awesome. Well, Shannon, I definitely really appreciate all your time today. I'll make sure all of your information is in our show notes page for our listeners, and we wish you the best of the success in all your projects that are going on. I'm definitely going to be checking out those cameras. I am very interested to see what's going on down there.

Shannon: (00:35:32) - Well, thank you so much for having me on and I hope it was a value to your listeners.

Jen: (00:35:35) - Absolutely. Thank you for listening to my episode with Shannon Robinette. I'm sure you really enjoyed this episode as much as I did. He is such a breath of fresh air, and his insight to ground up construction, as well as how to raise capital and get started in an industry that maybe you don't have a lot of experience in. I think was very valuable until next time, take care.

Speaker: (00:36:01) - For more information about how Jennifer can help you plan, develop and manage a strong real estate investment portfolio, visit growingempires.com.